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Vengeance Demon Hunter State on Shadowlands Beta - Ineffectual Changes, Rotation Issues, Covenants
어둠땅
2020/07/25 시간 03:18
에
Itamae
에 의해 작성됨
Feedback and opinions on the state of Vengeance Demon Hunter on the state of Shadowlands Beta discussing the ineffectual changes, rotation issues, covenant abilities and more!
Introduction
Ever since the introduction of the Demon Hunter class in Legion, Vengeance as a spec has always felt reliant on borrowed power from external systems rather than being complete in its design. Since the spec didn’t exist prior to Legion, and was built in concert with Artifact Weapons, it became immediately obvious in early BFA testing that the core design didn’t work well once they were removed. Despite the introduction of stronger Azerite traits in 8.1, followed by Essences in 8.2 and Corruption in 8.3 bringing up the overall power level, Vengeance feels incomplete and has major core issues. With the removal of these external systems in Shadowlands and the introduction of new ones, we’re looking at yet another expansion where Vengeance will be incomplete without borrowed power.
In this article, we will cover the changes currently available on the Shadowlands Alpha, and how they impact Vengeance.
About the Author
This article was written by Itamae, Vengeance theorycrafter and mod on the
Fel Hammer Demon Hunter Class Discord
. I have mained Vengeance since Legion Beta while maintaining alts of every spec and can be found answering questions as well as discussing lesser known facets of the game in multiple class discords. Prior to publication, this article was critiqued by Fel Hammer regulars who have achieved Cutting Edge every tier and pushed some of the world's highest Mythic keystones, as well as other tank theorycrafters.
Changes and Issues
Pain has been renamed Fury in Shadowlands to match Havoc.
지옥 황폐
, a talent that was taken in early Legion before the Spirit Bomb rework, and appears to be our spec’s signature spell, is now baseline.
폭식
has been replaced with
악마성
.
영혼 베어내기
received a minor buff increasing its damage and healing compared to BfA, but is now limited to 5 targets.
불타는 낙인
gained a new rank
불타는 낙인
that causes it to leave a DoT on the target for a small amount of damage.
악마 쐐기
has been buffed, giving 75% of our agility as armor instead of 60%.
Mastery has been increased from 20% base to 24%.
Good
Baseline
지옥 황폐
gives us another Fury spender as well as interactions with some new talents.
Talents have been reworked so that we no longer have to choose between Damage and Survivability, and our Survivability is less reliant on random procs.
악마성
allows us to consistently control when we want
탈태
up and no longer competes with
영혼 폭탄
on the same row.
We gained a little bit more survivability during Active Mitigation uptime relative to BfA due to the changes to
악마 쐐기
and Mastery.
Bad
Unless we take the
영혼 폭탄
talent, we will be entirely reliant on the low damage from
제물의 오라
and
불꽃의 인장
in order to hold aggro in AoE situations due to the 5 target cap on
영혼 베어내기
.
Sigils are our only form of group utility and one of our core sigils,
사슬의 인장
is a talent rather than being baseline. This could be replaced by a talent that has an effect on all our Sigils like the other two talents such as increasing the radius of effect, making the row dependent on content. Some other active form of utility like a stun or group defensive would help round out the spec.
Mastery is effectively just Agility in another form and has no interesting interaction with our kit. It makes
악마 쐐기
stronger when active, which is generally unnecessary. A rework to make it affect gameplay in some fashion would make it stronger and more rewarding. For example, bring back
고통 인도자
in some form, or
악마의 먹이
as part of Mastery allowing a feedback loop that incentivizes proper gameplay.
Soul pickup from movement and in situations where we are up against terrain causing Souls to spawn inside us is still an issue. It causes us to lose DPS when playing
영혼 폭탄
, and lose survivability when playing any other build since we are unable to control consumption.
Many of our talents, both old and new are still never going to be taken due to one talent in each row being excessively powerful.
We have 3 talents here which provide some increase to mobility, along with some damage.
심연의 일격
was merged with
불꽃 충돌
, but we lost some quality of life in having the bonus 10 yard range removed. It will still be the strongest pick outside of some niche builds where
고통의 불꽃
may be taken.
지옥칼
is still a dead talent due to requiring an enemy target to charge to, and costing extra GCDs while generating Fury but no Souls, which are our core resource.
This row contains talents that provide survivability in general. However,
낙진
is still the only talent that provides a significant increase, as well as some damage through the souls generated.
영혼 베어내기
’s base heal is so low that
영혼의 향연
is insignificant, and the HoT is overwritten on every cast.
화형
only works in AoE situations, but spreads too slowly to matter, and if the targets with
불타는 낙인
on them die, it stops spreading.
We again have talents that provide survivability with some damage.
영혼 폭탄
will be the default pick due to a significant damage and healing increase, with
그을린 피부
having some uses when combined with
고통의 불꽃
for a pure ST defensive situation.
지옥불 갑옷
is unlikely to see play because of our base armor being too low for it to matter, while in situations where we have
악마 쐐기
or
탈태
up, our armor is high enough that a 20% increase is insignificant.
This row has no clear theme.
균열
will likely be default due to providing burst souls for
영혼 폭탄
, with
악마의 먹이
being taken for situations where
악마 쐐기
uptime is critical or when we need to heal a constant flow of damage, thus requiring
절단
for Soul generation.
영혼 분쇄
is close to useless and will never be taken due to how little offensive power we have translating into small amounts of leech.
This row contains utility regarding our Sigils.
사슬의 인장
will be the default for any mob control situations, while
집중된 인장
is for a very minor DPS increase when combined with
심연의 일격
.
촉진된 인장
currently has no function.
This row contains defensive options.
악마성
will be the default due to how powerful
탈태
is. What typically kills tanks is spike damage, rather than sustained, so a powerful cooldown is generally stronger than some consistent damage smoothing as provided by
공허의 절단기
.
영혼 방벽
provides a function similar to, but weaker than
악마성
, and requires spending Souls which we would rather use on
영혼 폭탄
, due to the the extreme defensive gain from
탈태
.
This row also provides defensive options.
최후의 수단
will still be the primary pick, due to the power of a Cheat Death in progression content.
파멸의 보루
overlaps functionality with Demonic, stacking the cooldowns, thus making it less appealing, while
대량 추출
has too long of a cooldown considering it provides a heal equivalent to one
영혼 폭탄
. However, it may have a niche as a damage talent in AoE situations where
최후의 수단
isn’t needed.
Ugly
Our core rotation has been problematic since we were introduced to the game and this is not changing in Shadowlands. When combined with our Active Mitigation model that has large gaps and reliance on external systems to fill in these gaps, we run into survivability issues. In addition, we have issues with threat in the base kit due to a lack of synergy and low coefficients on our damage spells. We will cover these issues in-depth below.
Resource conflict
First of all, Fury is still generally unimportant as a resource, with Souls taking priority. After the rework in BfA with Souls healing for 8% of damage taken in the last 5 seconds in combination with large mitigation gaps, Vengeance has revolved around generating and consuming as many Souls as possible while entirely disregarding Pain outside of minimum requirements in the rotational priority both for damage and survivability. In the current model, both Souls and Pain provide a source of damage and healing, but Souls do so much more effectively. If the developers wish to continue prioritizing Souls as our resource, then we should either have a system where Fury is spent to generate Souls or split the focus so that Fury is for damage/threat while Souls are for healing or vice-versa.
The primary culprit is the BfA rework of
절단
causing it to always generate a Soul. With the
악마의 먹이
talent, we are able to play a rotation known as “overcap” which allows us to do incredible amounts of healing by pressing nothing but
악마의 먹이
(and
제물의 오라
with
낙진
in AoE) to constantly generate Souls which are automatically consumed for healing if we already have 5 out. This situation still exists in Shadowlands and causes all other parts of the toolkit to be ignored, which is both unintuitive and not interesting gameplay. Pressing one button endlessly should not lead to maximum survivability, especially since it enables situations like solo-tanking Mythic
만족할 줄 모르는 샤드하르
. In addition, the trade-off for this survivability is that it has extremely low threat generation since we are pressing a button that deals very low damage and hits only one target. Because of this, we end up having significant threat issues in situations where we need extreme survivability such as Mythic Keystones at high levels.
Ineffective Spells and Threat Issues
Borrowed Power
One major issue with reliance on external systems is the requirement of damage corruptions in order to be viable. Currently, our strongest build requires us to stack as much
황혼의 파멸
as possible, with
공허의 채찍
in order to maintain aggro, and due to the randomness of procs, we can still struggle. We can use the
감시자의 힘
major to counteract this, but at the cost of using another strong major Essence.
Our base damage kit has no interaction or synergy, causing us to struggle on threat, especially when needing to kite. The lack of threat in our base kit becomes even more problematic at high Keystone levels, where most tanks prefer to stack Versatility and
다재다능
corruptions in order to make pulls survivable. Due to the lack of damage in our kit, when Versatility stacking, we don’t do enough damage to hold aggro with
폭식
, so we are forced to choose between threat and survival.
With corruption going away in the Shadowlands pre-patch and Essences at launch, we will be in a significantly worse spot both in damage and survivability than we currently are.
Soul Cleave
Ever since Legion,
영혼 베어내기
has been a button that is extremely unimpactful and something we actively try to avoid pressing unless needed. In Legion, this was because of the existence of Pain from Damage Taken(PfDT), which gave Pain based on the amount of incoming damage, and
, which as a Pain spender, allowed us to generate Souls and use
영혼 폭탄
, which only cost souls to deal damage. With that being the popular build,
영혼 베어내기
became a button that was completely ignored as a spender, as it dealt less damage and less healing while competing for Pain as a resource. In addition,
절단
was completely ignored as we did not need to generate Pain in high damage situations.
In BfA, PfDT was removed and
균열
became a replacement spell for
절단
instead of a separate spender, now generating more Pain and Souls at the cost of a charge system with a short cooldown.
영혼 폭탄
was also changed to cost 30 Pain in addition to Souls. With this change, rather than being able to constantly spam
-
-
영혼 폭탄
in high damage content, we were limited to pressing
균열
twice every 6 GCDs, which allowed for 1
영혼 폭탄
. This left 3 free GCDs in the rotation, allowing for us to use other abilities. As we had no other consistent abilities to press, the most efficient button thus became
영혼 베어내기
to spend any remaining pain, followed by other longer cooldowns.
However,
영혼 베어내기
did so little damage that it has been buffed by 20% in BfA twice, followed by another 20% buff in the current Shadowlands Alpha for a total of 60%. It also received a new rank
영혼 베어내기
which increases the base healing by 35% per soul consumed. However, it is still doing significantly less damage and healing than
영혼 폭탄
for the same amount of Fury, so despite the developers’ stated goal of having us use
영혼 폭탄
as a maintenance buff for
약화
and
영혼 베어내기
otherwise, we will still never prioritize it over
영혼 폭탄
.
A possible fix to this could be making
영혼 베어내기
generate Souls at the cost of Pain, rather than consuming them, reworking
영혼의 향연
to make it generate extra Souls, and
영혼 폭탄
to apply
약화
but not deal as much damage. Another possibility would be to separate the functions of Fury and Souls by making
영혼 베어내기
deal significantly more damage and remove the target cap, remove the base healing, and rework
영혼 폭탄
to do bonus healing when more Souls are consumed.
Ranged and AoE Threat
This is primarily a Mythic+ issue, as we have no good ranged threat generation and weak AoE threat without
영혼 폭탄
.
불꽃의 인장
does far too little damage relative to the length of its cooldown, and is only used as a GCD filler when there is nothing else to press. Similarly,
제물의 오라
is only used because it generates souls with
낙진
, not because of its damage.
영혼 베어내기
has a target cap and requires melee range, as well as hitting in a frontal cone rather than all around us. Taking
영혼 폭탄
somewhat mitigates this issue, but forces us into a one specific talent build, which trades survivability and overall damage for consistency, and seems to be something the developers actively are trying to avoid.
In order to fix this, I believe our base spells should be given a tuning pass, increasing the damage of
절단
,
영혼 베어내기
,
불꽃의 인장
, and
제물의 오라
, with target caps removed. We currently lack a spammable AoE generator spell, which every other tank has, so perhaps we could separate
균열
from
절단
rather than replacing it, and make
절단
have an AoE component while keeping
균열
single target. Alternatively, reduce the cooldowns on
불꽃의 인장
and
제물의 오라
so that we can have them available for burst threat when waves of adds spawn. Another option could be to give us a baseline offensive cooldown that improves our spells or reduces their cooldowns while active, allowing us to generate burst threat when needed. This would also allow us to keep some threat from range while kiting, as we are currently the only tank that is unable to consistently generate threat while out of melee range.
Mitigation Gaps
Our Active Mitigation system continues to be badly designed for situations in which we need to tank for extended periods. With the base kit, we have 30% uptime on
악마 쐐기
, increased by haste and
악마의 먹이
. Our only defensive cooldown outside of
탈태
is
불타는 낙인
which is Single Target, meaning we have no way of reducing damage in multi-target situations. While the low uptime of
악마 쐐기
is manageable in Single Target raid situations with tank swaps that give us time to recharge, if we need to tank for extended periods on multiple targets, we run out of charges and rely on external help.
악마의 먹이
fixes this issue, but forces us into a talent that should be part of our base toolkit that rewards proper gameplay with increased defensive uptime.
The heavy reliance on external systems as a source of power to make Vengeance viable is another major contributor to our gaps in mitigation. We have two separate issues - mitigation gaps and threat - that are currently solved with this borrowed power, both of which will need new solutions when the BfA systems are removed.
Currently in BfA, Vengeance with
악마 쐐기
active has approximately the same armor as Protection Warriors or Paladins do by default. With
탈태
up, that brings us up to similar Damage Reduction levels as they have with
방패 올리기
or
정의의 방패
. However, we still take significant amounts of damage through
악마 쐐기
on high level Mythic Keystones and even with self-healing from Souls, we hit a survivability wall earlier. With access to the
완벽의 환영
minor reducing our cooldown to 2 minutes and 15 seconds from 3 minutes, as well as 0.952 RPPM of
탈태
on the Major, on top of
폭식
, we are able to maintain upwards of 50% uptime on
탈태
. Combining this with high haste allows us to maintain mitigation uptime of close to 100%.
In Shadowlands, we trade all of this away for
악마성
, which gives us approximately 30% uptime if both
지옥 황폐
and
탈태
are used on cooldown. In combination with the low Active Mitigation uptime that we have as a base, this means we will have a large mitigation gap of 30-40% where we have neither
악마 쐐기
nor
탈태
available. There will likely be Legendaries that may help solve this issue, but it is again a reliance on getting specific setups in order to be viable.
불타는 낙인
being a ST defensive can help in specific encounters. However, it has a couple major issues as a defensive. It is on the GCD due to having a damage component, unlike the damage reduction cooldowns of every other tank spec. In any situation with more than one target, or where the target isn’t the primary source of damage such as soaking environmental damage, it provides little to no reduction. Redesigning it to global Damage Reduction as a cooldown would help fill in these gaps. For example, in keeping with the class theme, we could cast it on ourselves, dealing damage but giving us the Damage Reduction on all incoming damage, or it could be cast in AoE around us, rather than Single Target, or naturally spread quickly. This would require a rework to the
화형
talent, but it already would never be taken in any situation.
I'd like to see the base cooldown on
악마 쐐기
reduced so that we can reach close to, if not 100% uptime, or
악마의 먹이
made baseline with a new talent replacing it. Doing this would reduce our heavy reliance on ways to proc
탈태
for survivability as well as the spikes of damage that we take when no mitigation is available.
Covenants
We have access to one generic and one class-specific ability with the introduction of Covenants in Shadowlands. With the current design where it will be difficult to switch, some Covenants will be a default pick depending on your preferred content, but you will be significantly less effective in other forms of content.
Kyrian
Class Ability
:
하늘의 칙령
- At first glance, it is a strong AoE sigil on paper, dealing approximately 3 times as much damage as
폭식
and shattering up to 3 Souls, but with twice the cooldown. Since it is a sigil, it does get affected by
촉진된 인장
. However, with how strong
사슬의 인장
is in AoE content for control, this combination would never be used.
Generic
:
청지기 소환
- Provides a vial similar to the
무효화 발전체
Major effect, which is largely useless in BfA. It remains to be seen if encounters in Shadowlands will have this same issue.
Venthyr
Class Ability
:
죄악의 낙인
- Another strong effect, it’s similar to our
불타는 낙인
, but instead of flat damage reduction, it lowers melee and cast speed and deals 3 times as much damage. Activating
탈태
causes it to apply to everything nearby. This is effectively a supercharged form of Fiery Brand but doesn’t help against nukes, so it’s going to be more powerful in high Mythic keystones. Unfortunately, it also suffers from the cooldown stacking problem, where we have the major defensive boost occurring while we have already used a large cooldown in
탈태
.
Generic
:
어둠의 문
- a teleport that will likely have many uses in dungeons to avoid mechanics or do skips.
Necrolord
Class Ability
:
불길의 양식
- Effectively a damage and defensiveness boost due to the Demon Soul that is spawned when it dies, along with the puddle. The cooldown is far too long to be particularly effective, and depending on our tuning, the damage boost is likely to be negligible.
Generic
:
살덩이창조
- This shield requires a channel, during which we cannot dodge or parry, making it difficult to find 4 seconds during which we can find time to use it. The saving grace is that the cooldown matches
불길의 양식
so we can always guarantee the full shield.
Night Fae
Class Ability
:
사냥
- A very cool ability, it allows us to teleport to a marked enemy after charging to them once, every 30 seconds without line of sight required. It will likely have uses in PvP or for some niche kiting situations where you want to get back to a target quickly. It increases the Fury generation from Shear, which is effectively useless as we have no good ways to spend Fury.
Generic
:
영혼형상
- Mobility spell that provides a short range blink. Could be useful in different encounters but likely to be less effective than
어둠의 문
As it is, Kyrian will likely never be taken for any sort of content due to
하늘의 칙령
being relatively weak compared to the options from other Covenants outside of a possible full Single Target build for some raid encounters stacking
고통의 불꽃
,
그을린 피부
, and the new legendary effect
라젤리크의 파멸
while never using any other sigils aside from
하늘의 칙령
in order to game the cooldown. When compared to Venthyr for example,
하늘의 칙령
requires 3.5 targets to do equivalent damage to a single target for
죄악의 낙인
, and the Soul generation is delayed so it cannot be used as an emergency burst heal. Night Fae will be only used in PvP as there are few encounters that require us to get away from a target and go back to it quickly, and we already have two charges of Infernal Strike for that. Necrolord could be used for encounters where a large shield is needed and we have time to prepare in advance, but would be useless in most situations and we have no offensive cooldowns to sync with the damage boost from the consumed Demon Soul. Venthyr seems to be significantly stronger than the others, providing both damage and survivability on a short cooldown for Single Target while having an AoE option with
탈태
, and extra mobility that allows for dodging mechanics.
Considering that it looks like we are going to essentially be locked into a Covenant and how the Kyrian, Necrolord, and Night Fae abilities are both clunky and ineffectual, Venthyr will be the only viable choice as the effects are strong in the vast majority of situations, removing the option of using any other Covenant.
While we have yet to see the final form of Soulbinds, from what we have available so far, they are looking to be equally as imbalanced, and Conduits exacerbate that issue, being similar to relics or gems that drop randomly from different content.
Legendaries
Being the newest class, we don’t have many past legendaries or tier bonuses that could be reworked into strong choices during Shadowlands. While some of the effects from Torghast or the past could be quite strong and flesh out our kit, Vengeance should not have to rely on borrowed effects to feel complete, as the core problems are not solved and we lose all our power with each expansion. The current incarnation of Legendaries leaves much to be desired.
General Legendaries
반 거인의 강화
- Absolutely useless. In no situation would we ever need a movement speed or melee range boost, and increased size can actually be detrimental, making it harder to judge mechanics and positioning.
암흑의 시간
- Giving us a defensive group cooldown with no way to control when it is dropped is bad. There are many situations where we could potentially drop to 35% due to an external factor but not be in any danger, so this will never be used outside of some possibility of a niche situation where we can drop health for a raid cooldown before a mechanic.
암흑시선의 은혜
- Quite likely to be the only useful legendary, this will provide us with approximately 4.5% increased uptime on
탈태
when taking the
악마성
talent, which is likely to be our default talent choice in Shadowlands. While it is random, it provides us with a similar effect to
폭식
and can proc off of itself, allowing us to extend
탈태
duration. Unfortunately, it will still not be strong enough to make up for the large Mitigation gaps we're likely to see.
집단 고뇌
- Seems interesting, but not likely to be very strong. For Vengeance, it will summon an allied Havoc Demon Hunter that casts
안광
. It has potential to deal quite a bit of damage depending on tuning, but provides no defensive benefits. In addition, it always spawns to your right and is locked in place, similar to
쿨 티란 포탄 주자
, so it can completely miss, especially if you need to move or turn to follow a target.
Havoc Legendary
지옥 폭격
- If this works for Vengeance despite being categorized as a Havoc Legendary, it has some potential for extra threat in AoE, especially if the additional glaive portion stacks. Unfortunately, it looks like as of the current build, legendaries are spec-locked.
Vengeance Legendaries
불타는 영혼
- A reworked form of
키렐 나라크
from Legion, rather than reducing the cooldown on enemies hit by
제물의 오라
, it reduces the cooldown of
불타는 낙인
for every Soul consumed by
영혼 베어내기
. This would only ever be taken if playing the
고통의 불꽃
/
그을린 피부
combination in a pure Single Target encounter for maximum uptime on
불타는 낙인
. The vast majority of the time, we will be playing
영혼 폭탄
and preferring to consume all Souls with that, so this legendary would have no effect whatsoever.
라젤리크의 파멸
- The effect from
파멸자의 잃어버린 완갑
in Legion, which was basically never used. We only press
영혼 베어내기
once every 6 GCDs, so it's approximately 50% cooldown reduction on a Sigil in the best case, and reducing the cooldown of a random Sigil isn't particularly helpful. The only way to control the cooldown reduction is to not use any other Sigil than the one we want a reduction on. Depending on tuning, there's a possibility of using it with the Kyrian covenant and never using any Sigil outside of
하늘의 칙령
for maximum damage, but it would likely still be worse than just playing
영혼 폭탄
.
지옥 불길의 강화
- The effect from
지옥 불길 망토
in Legion. Passive magic reduction is nice, but unlikely to see use in most encounters. If anything, it might be taken in some raid encounters where there is a lot of consistent rot damage, but it's unlikely to be more useful than
암흑시선의 은혜
.
암흑 불꽃의 영혼
- The effect from
암흑 불꽃의 영혼
in Legion. This was hardly ever chosen in Legion, and seems like it won't be in Shadowlands either. Without taking
심연의 일격
, it won't stack quickly enough to do the full damage or healing on each brand, and the only use would be in AoE to burst down a priority target. If encounters or dungeons are designed around this, it might be useful but in the past they haven't been.
Overall Evaluation of Legendaries
So far, based on the legendary effects released, we are gaining much less than would have been expected, and none of them fill the gaps in our kit for either threat or survival. The best legendary effect we have still leaves us with upwards of a 30% gap in mitigation where we have neither
악마 쐐기
nor
탈태
, and at best provide less than 1% to damage and threat. The heavy focus on
영혼 베어내기
and
불타는 낙인
in our legendaries speaks volumes about the lack of understanding of Vengeance's issues.
Closing
The Alpha rotation feels a little better than Retail at the moment, with the addition of
지옥 황폐
and shifting of our talent placements. However, the fundamental design remains the same and the issues we’ve had since our introduction in Legion remain the same. We continue to have the same weaknesses that have plagued our spec, while not particularly gaining any strengths. In addition, it seems like the designers are still trying to push us towards pressing
영혼 베어내기
more often by using external effects. Rather than trying to entice us to press a button that does nothing by adding additional effects, it would be more effective to rework the button so that we want to press it, and have these effects as a bonus. Losing external sources of power such as Essences and Corruption is going to be extremely punishing during pre-patch and launch. Barring a full rework, we will continue to need band-aid fixes to both survivability and threat throughout the course of the expansion as we did in both Legion and BfA. As we only have access to leveling gear and enemies, we cannot say with certainty how our survivability will end up in progression content, but based on past encounters and the lack of changes to our Active Mitigation model, the outlook is grim. While it has always been possible to get Cutting Edge, and even Hall of Fame with Vengeance, the players achieving this have typically been doing so in spite of the spec, rather than because of it.
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