I wonder why all range debuff (area) marked with visual, while lot of melee missing it.Especially bad when location is covered with spell effect or Demon Form wings.
One of my first frustrating periods of playing this game as a death knight came with the release of level 80 Onyxia. People would make their groups be all ranged DPS because they wanted to get Ony down as fast as possible. Never mind the adds or anything else, people focused on being all ranged to get DPS on Ony while she flew.\r\rFights in this game have always favored ranged-my raid leader in 2009 was a rogue with the mantra "Blizzard Hates Melee"- and as the fights grow more artificially complex, melee suffers even further. Frankly I'm shocked it took this long for people to notice.
I dont understand all this complaining, you wont have a perfect balance where everything works for all specs and classes. \rmost of the abilities mentioned also screw ranged dps and their uptime, you cant hit while moving on most classes, you can cast something sometimes but you lose a huge amount of dps specially if using cds.\rJust to mention one as an example you cant do anything as a range if avalanche in jaina pops on you besides running and maybe throw a dot. Some melees still have some ranged spells that dont do much but its something like enhancement frost and fire thing wich have some range.
Oh boy, more drama! Yes please!
This is one of the oldest problems in a game like WoW that takes its raiding "seriously:" A ranged player is a ultimately a melee player that doesn't have to be in melee. A melee player is a player without options as to where to stand, and raids are constantly demanding movement. When you have options for movement in this praradigm, you are "superior." They have tried to establish melee as the burst damage with less than 100% uptime, but they can only twist that knob so far before it breaks something. It's almost impossible to design a mechanic that "favors melee" when every ranged spec can just... move into melee range.I honestly have no idea why anyone "serious" about the raiding game would ever put all their chips on maining a rogue. When I am choosing a "main" for an expansion, I always choose a character with a ranged option so I have a spec for grouping. The only tank I'll commit to now is my Kul Tiran druid because I have the option to tank for friends and go ranged for PUGs. I don't know how anyone with any raiding ambition can set their hearts on a melee spec. My hat is off to those who pull it off, but man... that's too much work for me given the options I have as other classes\/specs.Multiply all these issues x1000 when you factor in "on the guild's time" in an aging playerbase and a much more competitive market for said time. The final paragraphs of this article nail that point.
Well put. Can always count on Wordup to put some words down so eloquently when it comes to design around melee.
One component is anything targeted to the Ranged by default targets the healers and effects their throughput. That directly goes to the damage output the fight can use without becoming mathematically impossible. While they've made strides to make Holy Paladin a melee healer, most still play as Ranged due to some of the issues highlighted in this article.
Raiding as melee has always been disaster. And Blizzard does almost nothing to fix it except a few random bandaid nerfs to bosses.
One component is anything targeted to the Ranged by default targets the healers and effects their throughput. That directly goes to the damage output the fight can use without becoming mathematically impossible. While they've made strides to make Holy Paladin a melee healer, most still play as Ranged due to some of the issues highlighted in this article.\r\rWhat Blizzard needs to finally do wrt this is stop waffling back and forth about if Mistweaver Monk and Holy Paladin are melee or ranged. They're so inconsistent it seems like they flip a coin sometimes. ESPECIALLY with Glimmer being confirmed not going anywhere, that immense gain in throughput forces a Holy Paladin into melee - and on some fights they ignore mechanics like melee do, on others they get targetted even when melee can't. Its so bizzare. \r\rI wouldn't even be mad either way, I just want them to finally put forth an official answer on the status of those specs. I think it would be fine for them both to be considered Melee because of what you've mentioned though. Ranged mechanics don't often ignore healer flags, though some do. \r\rOh well. Such is inconsistent life.
One component is anything targeted to the Ranged by default targets the healers and effects their throughput. That directly goes to the damage output the fight can use without becoming mathematically impossible. While they've made strides to make Holy Paladin a melee healer, most still play as Ranged due to some of the issues highlighted in this article.\r\rExcellent point! I'd mentioned that in another discussion on this topic before and it really is valid. No one wants the healer's life to get even harder, because then you have healer draught.
As a DK player im extremely disappointed from the raids so far. I bring nothing to the raid and my dps goes to the bottom once i have to move. 8.2 doesnt seems to fix any of the class issues.
Current meta:Lock for raiding. (anti-melee)Double rogue for M+. (anti-ranged)What needs to change: For starters, we need more active balancing in tiers. The quantity of overall +\/-X% damage balancing has really dissipated this expansion. Not seeing those mid-patch changes anymore, nor are trinkets getting balanced. Looking at you, G'huun and Jaina trinkets.At this point, there isn't much of a debate, the balancing just hasn't happened on the same level as it has in the past. Maybe the focus on Azerite traits has weighed down the team, or they're just not making it apart of their weekly Wednesday development meetings anymore.
The truth is: A melee character is an imposition on the healer, in any trinity based or movement based content. Anyone forming a team to go easy on the healer (and thus on the raid) will pick a ranged unless there is a buff or something involved. It's that simple. There is nothing WoW can do about this because they can't just make melee "God DPS because they have to stop sometimes," because that breaks other avenues. Rogues SHOULD be the hardest hitting class in the game, they should be, it's basically their class fantasy... but you can't have any class so far ahead as to invalidate everyone else. Not on purpose anyway. If they are being "numbers fair" to everyone, ranged wins when you factor in the movement of a raid.\r\rYou want it hard? This is what happens. Everyone can be "good enough" to enjoy the main thoroughfare of the game, but raiding above LFR and dungeoning above heroic are entirely and contextually optional (with patience for mythic story dungeons to make their way into heroic), and so it's very much "at your own risk" territory, really.
Well stated.As a person who mains a Feral druid and sits out of an encounter over rolling balance or another spec a lot of this hits home. I really only enjoy playing Feral, no matter the encounter (pve\/pvp) and understand that isn't ideal in all situations. I'd rather be sat then forced to play a spec or an alt that I loathe at the end of the day. Going Moonkin for a fight is not an option for me because I detest playing ranged with every fiber of my being. I will not do it.I understand my guild may sit me on the 1rst mythic kill (though rarely) but it just means I'm brought in for the 2nd kill. It's not that big of a deal.At the end of the day I love melee and only want to play melee (outside of the occasional tank moment). I shouldn't be punished for that choice because of an encounter design. Raids shouldn't favor one over the other- a good encounter should be challenging for both and allow ranged\/melee to shine in different areas.
I agree, this is a very serious problem that needs to be addressed as soon as possible starting with the Azshara raid and going forward
Allowing us to hide other players' spell effects would greatly improve the ability and enjoyment of most melee players, in my opinion.
Allowing us to hide other players' spell effects would greatly improve the ability and enjoyment of most melee players, in my opinion.\r\rAgreed, but unlikely to happen this expansion as they are about to introduce "bragging rights" spell visuals with greater essences.
Yeah there should be a drawback to ranged moving in melee range, like a damage decrease. This problem will always be there as long as ranged can mimic melee with no downside.
Yeah there should be a drawback to ranged moving in melee range, like a damage decrease. \r\rWon't happen in modern WoW where everyone needs to be able to solo quest the core of the game.
Melee need the boss to ignore them completely to be a reasonable choice. It's as simple as that. Only then can the melee player thrive.
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